MINUTES

AGRICULTURAL ADVISORY BOARD

Rachel Carson State Office Building, Harrisburg, PA

June 25, 1997

There being a majority of the Board members present the meeting was called to order at 10:08 a.m. by Acting Chairperson Bill Adams, PA Farm Bureau. Chairperson Brenda Shambaugh, PA State Grange, was attending the swearing in ceremony for PA Department of Agriculture Secretary Sam Hayes, and would be joining the meeting after the conclusion of that ceremony.

Attendance

Members

Bill Adams, PA Farm Bureau
Brenda Shambaugh, PA State Grange
Donald Lichtenwalner, Grain Producer
Tom Oyler, Jr., Fruit Producer
Lynn Slabicki, House, Agriculture and Rural affairs Committee (Rep. Cappabianca)
David Brubaker, Agri-business Representative
Jay Howes, House, Agriculture and Rural Affairs Committee (Rep. Bunt)
Bill Bowers, USDA, Natural Resource Conservation Service
Robert Pardoe, Jr., Dairy Producer
Carl Shaffer, Vegetable Producer
Sam Elkin, Livestock Producer
Dr. Herb Cole, Penn State University
Frank Long, PA Association of Conservation Districts
Dave Stetler, PA Farmers Union
Alarie Fleming, USDA, Farm Service Agency
Lyle Forer, PA Department of Agriculture
Bruce Holbrook, PA Department of Environmental Protection

Agencies, Advisors, and Guests

Bernie Hoffnar, PA Department of Environmental Protection
Cedric Karper, DEP, Bureau of Water Quality Protection
Bill Brubaker, PA Agronomic Products Association
Sharon Freeman, DEP, Office of Policy
Lynn Langer, DEP, Bureau of Watershed Conservation
Michael Sherman, DEP, Bureau of Watershed Conservation
Chris Allen, DEP, Public Participation Coordinator
Diane Wilson, DEP, Bureau of Watershed Conservation
Dave Hess, DEP, Executive Deputy Secretary for Policy and Communications
Dean Auchenbach, DEP, Bureau of Water Quality Protection

Minutes

The minutes of the April 23, 1997 meeting were approved as distributed.

The Citizens Volunteer Monitoring Program

Diane Wilson, DEP, Bureau of Watershed Conservation, provided the Board an overview of the Citizens Volunteer Monitoring Program (CVMP.) The CVMP is a new Department initiative, although citizens monitoring is not a new concept in Pennsylvania. A survey conducted by the Department revealed that there are currently 65 citizens monitoring programs in the state, which involve over 6,000 people, monitoring over 1300 stations. These groups have spent two million dollars annually, of their own money, to learn about the health of our waters. These groups use the data they obtain for purposes such as education and awareness; problem identification; non-point source pollution assessment; habitat restoration; and local based government decisions. Diane stressed that the CVMP, which will standardize the operation of citizens monitoring groups in the state, is in the formative stage at this time, and she welcomed guidance and advise from the Board in the formation of the program. A copy of a DEP fact sheet on the CVMP and an organizational chart for the Bureau of Watershed Conservation was distributed (attachment # 1.)

The Department will be offering quality control/quality assurance training to citizens groups. These training sessions will be offered on August 16, at the Schuylkill Conservation District Office; September 20, at Blue Spruce Park in Indiana County; and October 4, at the Dauphin Conservation District Office. The Department will also be developing a directory of citizens monitoring programs, producing a newsletter, and forming informal partnerships with citizen groups. A monitoring council will be formed to guide the CVMP. Diane requested that the Board designate an agricultural representative to serve on this council. It is expected that the CVMP Monitoring council will meet approximately three times a year.

Diane acknowledged the concerns that have been expressed by the agricultural community regarding the CVMP. These concerns are private property rights and trespassing; liability of the landowner; damage to property and livestock; quality of the data, and inappropriate use of the data. Diane stressed that training and education of the groups involved in the CVMP would probably address the concerns raised by the agricultural community. All groups involved in the CVMP will need to obtain landowner permission before entering onto private property. Diane suggested that when landowners allow these groups on their property, they should alert them to any possible hazards or "attractive nuisances" that are on their property in order to lessen their legal liability. The data that is collected in the CVMP may be supplied to DEP Regional Office’s, conservation district office’s, and county planning department’s.

Carl Shaffer, Vegetable Producer, expressed his concern that data collected during the monitoring may be used to put agriculture at risk. He also feels that some groups may inappropriately use the data to further their own agendas. Several other Board members also expressed concerns over the agendas of groups that may be involved in the CVMP. David Brubaker, Agri-business Representative, stated that the accuracy of the samples will have an affect on agricultural products in Pennsylvania. Diane stated that any data that is submitted to DEP will be double checked to avoid a problem. She also stated that data collected in the CVMP would not be used by DEP for regulatory purposes. Jay Howes, House, Agriculture and Rural Affairs Committee, suggested that it would help if the Department would put a disclaimer in its fact sheet stating that the data collected will not be used for regulatory purposes.

The Board also expressed concern over goal number 4 of the CVMP, enpowerment of citizens groups to work with local government to assure appropriate land use decisions. Several members stated that this is the scariest part of the CVMP. They stated that township supervisors may misuse the data to make inappropriate decisions regarding land use. The Board members also questioned whether local government officials would be able to properly interpret the data, if it is supplied to them. Robert Pardoe, Jr., Dairy Producer, made a motion that goal number 4 of the CVMP be amended to add the wording "through incentive driven voluntary improvements, rather than regulations." Donald Lichtenwalner, Grain Producer, seconded this motion. During the discussion Carl Shaffer suggested that the Board get additional information about the CVMP before they approve any motions. Robert Pardoe agreed, and withdrew his motion at this time.

Chairperson Brenda Shambaugh requested that the Department provide the Board members a copy of the directory of citizen groups as soon as it is available, so the Board can review it to see what groups are participating and where they are doing the monitoring. The Board members will review this information and revisit this topic at its August Board meeting. The Board declined to appoint an agricultural representative to serve on the CVMP monitoring council until they have had a chance to discuss this item at the August meeting.

Statewide Senior Environmental Corps

Chris Allen, Public Participation Coordinator, DEP, distributed a news release (attachment # 2) regarding the signing of an agreement between DEP and the Environmental Alliance for Senior Involvement, to establish the first statewide Senior Environmental Corps in Pennsylvania. These senior volunteers will help to establish a database on water monitoring and other environmental needs. Chris stated that Senior Corps volunteers could also be used to assist in assuring the quality of the data collected for the CVMP, and to interpret that data.

Compliance Reporting

Dave Hess, Executive Deputy Secretary for Policy and Communications, DEP, outlined the Department’s proposed Compliance Reporting System. A news release regarding the proposed compliance reporting system was distributed (attachment # 3.) Dave Hess stated that the Ridge Administration is taking a new approach to compliance, where the goal is getting people into compliance, not fines and penalties. It was also noted that in the past the Department did not report positive things that were being done by individuals or businesses. Over the next two years the Department will be developing a compliance reporting system that will allow the public immediate computer access to information on whether individuals, businesses, and local governments are complying with environmental laws and regulations. Dave stated that the Board will be asked to help in designing this final reporting system.

Dave Brubaker, Agri-business Representative, complimented the Department for taking this action, and noted that Pennsylvania was ahead of other state’s in this aspect. Dave Hess noted that many other state’s will be taking this approach in the future. Tom Oyler, Jr., Fruit Producer, cautioned that those who are in compliance may be under greater scrutiny in this system than those that are out of compliance. He suggested that it really needs to be defined as to what compliance is. Dave Hess stated that if a violation is not corrected, you are out of compliance. Once the violation is resolved it can be taken off the system. Dave Hess noted that the Department will compile a catalog of significant and important violations, and will go to its advisory board’s for review and comments on this catalog.

Update on the Status of the Chapter 102, Erosion Control Regulations

Chairperson Brenda Shambaugh, noted that Department staff are currently addressing the comments received during the open comment period on the regulations. The Board members had received copies of the February 19, 1997 memo from the Air and Water Quality Technical Advisory Committee, and the May 9, 1997 memo from Doug Goodlander, PA Department of Agriculture, regarding their comments on the proposed revisions. These memo’s were sent in response to the Board’s request, at its April meeting, for copies of other comments received regarding the proposed revisions. At this time the Chapter 102 regulations are scheduled to go to the Environmental Quality Board on August 19, 1997.

Update on the Status of H.B. 922 the Bottle Bill

Chairperson Brenda Shambaugh noted that a hearing on this bill was held before the State House Government Committee on April 21, 1997. Since that date Representative Paul Clymer, Chairman of the State Government Committee, has met with representatives of the bottling companies. At that meeting the bottling companies pledged to increase their educational efforts to educate the public not to throw out bottles and cans. Brenda stated that the feeling is that as long as the bottling companies live up to their pledge that H.B. 922 will not come out of committee.

Committee Report on the Use of Inmates to Clean Up Trash in Farm Fields Along Roadways

Due to the fact that Mike Brendle, Poultry Producer, who chairs this committee, was not able to attend the meeting, this topic was tabled until the August meeting.

Comments/Issues/Concerns of the Board

Chairperson Brenda Shambaugh noted that the Board members received in their pre-meeting mailing, a copy of the May 30, 1997 letter from Bill Pounds, DEP, Bureau of Land Recycling and Waste Management, in reply to the Board’s comments on the draft " Best Practices for Environmental Protection in the Mushroom Farm Community." The Department will be reevaluating the maximum depth requirement for spent mushroom substrate (SMS.) Prior to the Manual being published as final, the Department will request the Board’s comments on the final SMS passive composting depth.

Jay Howes, House Agricultural and Rural Affairs Committee, noted that nothing has been done legislatively regarding the issue of "backhauling" food products or produce. He noted that the legislature is aware of the agricultural communities concerns over this issue, and realize that something must be done. He also noted that DEP’s enforcement of "backhauling" with farmers is a low priority within the Department. Dave Brubaker, Agri-business Representative, distributed some handouts to the members regarding this issue.

Dean Auchenbach, DEP, Bureau of Water Quality Protection, reported that he checked with Joel Bolstein, DEP Deputy Secretary for Special Projects, regarding the status of the nine producer member terms on the Board. The terms of the nine producer members expired on October 6, 1996. At that time a letter was sent to DEP Secretary Seif, stating that all nine producer members were willing to serve until reappointed or replaced. The Board also submitted a proposal to stagger the terms of service for the producer members, so all nine terms would not expire at the same time in the future. Secretary Bolstein indicated that the names of the producer members have been submitted to the Governor’s Office, as well as the Board’s proposal to stagger the terms. The Governor’s Office will make the final decision whether the current producer members are reappointed or replaced, and whether the terms of service will be staggered. Until that decision is made the producer members should continue to serve on the Board.

Dave Steele, PA Farmers Union, provided Board members a copy of Farmers Union President Robert Junk’s testimony before the Clean Air, Wetlands, Private Property and Nuclear Safety Subcommittee of the Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works, regarding the proposed EPA ozone and particulate matter standards.

There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 12:05 p.m.

Respectfully Submitted
Dean M. Auchenbach
DEP Liaison